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31 August 2005

London 7/7: What Time Did the Trains Leave Kings Cross

A fairly simple question and one for which the answer is proving to be a little difficult to track down.

To further simplify and clarify the nature of the question regarding 7 July and quoting from the newly formed blog of Bridget Dunne, The Mysterious Case Of The Non-Existent Train Time:

"Simply, what times did the trains leave Kings Cross that morning?

You might think this was too obvious a question and that the answer would be easily available. But, no! It would appear to be totally absent from any newspaper or website, including that of the Metropolitan Police."

In fact, it's not just the Metropolitan Police, who don't display the times that the trains left Kings Cross, nor do the British Transport Police, TFL, Metronet or any of the media organisations 'responsible' for reporting such things.

Furthermore, any requests directed to the authorities charged with running trains or buses on the day, or those tasked with investigating what occurred since, seem to meet with curious placatory rebuttals along with diversionary pointers to published timetables.

Responses from various organisations regarding train times have been brought to the attention of The Antagonist, all of which rather defy The Antagonist's sense of reason for the for the way in which they dismiss perhaps the single most important fact of the day, the times that each of the blast trains left Kings Cross.

The Metropolitan Police response to a request for the times that the trains left Kings Cross on 7 July stated:
Following receipt of your request searches were conducted within the MPS to locate information relevant to your request.


The information requested falls under a MPS 'normal business process' and is therefore unavailable under the Act.


Section 21 of the Act provides:

(1) Information which is reasonably accessible to the applicant otherwise than under section 1 is exempt information.

The information you have requested is 'reasonably accessible' elsewhere on Transport for London Site.

What great detective work by the Metropolitan Police! We can all rest assured that our tax money isn't going to waste and that truth and justice is what we're paying for. But that's not quite the whole story.

The Metropolitan Police state the times that the trains left Kings Cross on 7 July are available from the TFL web site. In fact, that statement is not true which, perhaps, would make it a lie in the eyes of some, especially given that anyone can scour the TFL web site for the times at which the trains left Kings Cross on 7 July and turn up precisely nothing in the way of an answer.

You can find the scheduled train times on the TFL web site (all commuters know trains stick rigidly to these timetables every day, never mind when bombs are going off) but, as has become very apparent since the events of 7/7, the scheduled train times are of little or no significance owing to the fact that the Underground was suffering from many delays that morning, some of which were significantly in advance of any bombs going off, and all of which provide numerous avenues for further independent investigation in and of themselves.

So, the scheduled timetables are of no use to anyone at all whether they be the police, eye-witnesses, or anyone with an interest in understanding quite what occurred that fateful day, yet the Metropolitan Police is expecting to get away with referring any queries about 7/7 train departure times to timetables we know to be utterly useless.

How great is Freedom of Information Act? The Antagonist believes that this act might be more appropriately named the Freedom of Useless Information Act if the MPS' interpretation of Freedom of Information is any indication of its outstanding benefit to society.

Seven weeks after 7/7 and the times at which the trains left Kings Cross station are apparently a very closely guarded secret.

Why won't the Metropolitan Police Service, or the British Transport Police or TFL or MetroNet disclose the times that the trains left Kings Cross station on 7 July? Perhaps the stories that have been conconcted about events of the day would fall apart if we were privy to the times that the trains left Kings Cross? Or, perhaps they wouldn't.

Either way, the times at which the trains left Kings Cross is a vital bit of information in understanding what happened. The ongoing secrecy surrounding the times that the trains left Kings Cross by all parties involved - some seven weeks after 7/7 - should act as significant warning to everyone that the London bombings of 7 July 2005 are most definitely not quite as they were reported to be.

Keep up with the quest for the answer to the question that is proving to be the 7/7 Holy Grail over at The Mysterious Case Of The Non-Existent Train Time.


The Editor said...

The only thing appearing to be deceptively concealed is what is the point questioning this.

Care to engage in a little full disclosure on what qualifies this as "perhaps the single most important fact of the day, the times that each of the blast trains left Kings Cross" ?

Personally I have been in agreement with the enitre planet's news headlines that the "bombs exploding" was the most important fact of the day, but I am open to opinions.

The Antagonist said...

In the timeline of events on July 7 we are told the trains left Kings Cross and that shortly afterwards bombs went off.

If we are to assume that suicide bombers were riding those trains then we must first establish that it was possible for them to have been on those trains. In order to do this it is crucial to estabish precisely the movements of the suicide-bomber suspects and the precise times at which the trains left Kings Cross.

Were the trains running according to published schedules? Do you Know that to be the case? Can you prove it?

Unlikely on all counts.

The notion that the trains could be running anywhere near their published schedules that morning is rendered even more incredulous when you remember that a large number of incidents and delays were reported across the Underground network that morning far in advance of bombs going off.

Full disclosure? You are happy to assume there were bombs on the trains yet you know not when the trains left Kings Cross nor that the suspected suicide bombers were on the trains.

Once you've established the times the trains left Kings Cross and that all the suspected suicide bombers were on those trains and all of them were carrying bombs, then we can talk about bombs.

The Editor said...

Departure times do not provide anything but a peripheral filling in of the gaps though. They would not establish any facts of significance which are not already known.

If it is enough that those bombers got on the trains that the victims did what else is learned by knowing if the train left at 8:40 or 8:45 ?

Unless there is some point to knowing whether the bombs went as far along each line as the bombers wanted them to or if they went off too early I cannot see the point of the questions.

Seriously... what would the point of knowing that be ? Whether they really wanted to create a "cross of fire" or an "oblong of fire" ? Who cares ?

Because you already know that they intended to suicide bomb the transport system as a protest/retaliation for the Iraq invasion and related human rights abuses. This was the first guess on the day and it has been confirmed as what happened.

ps. I really have no idea why you are saying things like "if you are happy to assume bombs were on the trains" but dozens of people died as a result of these bombings. Take a minute and rethink WTF it is you are questioning before continuing.

Anonymous said...

Why bother with these times?

Attrition should know that questions have been raised about the authenticity of the Luton photos (one without a time stamp)and also about when the men could have gotten to London from (we have been told) Luton. Given that it is quite a long walk from Thameslink station to Circle and Picadilly Line platforms then if the Luton train they got left at 7.42 that fday and didn't get in till 8.39 that day, and the men took just 6 minutes to get to their tube platforms, and immediately got on trains which took just 5 minutes (?? or 7 more like?) to get to Edgeware Rd and Aldgate, then the official account just about stacks up - explosions at 8.50.

But that is a lot of IFs (however they could perhaps have got the train which left at 7.25 from Luton, which would have given them the necessary time in London.)

Attrition may not know that there are two reputable accounts (concerning the two Circle Line trains) that the explosions were from underfloor, not inside the carriages. See my website www.julyseventh.co.uk - Hypothesis 8 for references.

The real point is this: we know some non-governmental extremists let bombs off in crowded places but we also know that various secret state agencies such as MI6, CIA, Mossad have also perpetrated such outrages over the years (e.g. Bologna railway station massacre blamed on the Left was really by fascists directed and trained by CIA as part of Operation Gladio - google it).

So in investigating with an open mind we need to have access to all the information which can help us - and society at large - to feel we know what happened - and thus what to do to help prevent more such occurences. If any of the information is being held back - CCTV footage from lots of connected cameras, phone records, computer records, the railway carriages, train departure times - then this will breed suspicion, and especially in Muslim communities who have been scapegoated collectively for doubly un-Islamic (suicidal and murderous) acts that they don't even know for sure any Muslim was involved in!

So even if Attrition thinks us crazy, I hope he or she will want to add their name to the Appeal on my website (www.julyseventh.co.uk) in the Politics of Inquiry section: Open the Minds! Open the Evidence!